there is a new rescue posted in my feed store. I have no idea of how to "check"their legitimacy.. I have seen too many ppl get taken for a ride by several pmu claiming rescue groups, and didnt know if you knew anything about a group called FANI?
thanks Melissa176

Hi Melissa,

This is a really good question. I have heard of FANI, but don't know anything about it. We adopted three Appy PMUs this past May, and I must admit I was very nervous about sending off $2700 to a non-profit I knew nothing about! (By the way, it turned out to be a great experience, we went with http://www.theanimalifarm.com)

quote:

Originally posted by Katie in CA:
we went with http://www.theanimalifarm.com)

Good grief they are sure a high priced org. It blows my mind what people ask for horses these days and still call themselves Rescues. Breeders don't even ask these prices.

Just out of curiosity, how does the cost of the adoption fee affect whether or not you think someone can call themselves a rescuer?

Doesn't rescue just refer to where the animal came from and why it needs a new home? Isn't it very, very expensive to bring these horses from Canada and take care of all their medical needs, transportation, feed and training while they are waiting for an adopter to come?

Thanks for clarifying.

It is not very, very expensive. Not to the tune of $1200-$1500 when all is said and done. The PMU ranchers have gotten very greedy. Their transportation has been subsidized by NAERIC and they are asking prices for their foals that the ranchers in the states can't get with registered foals. They are continuing to breed horses for slaughter, since their contracts have been ended. They think that the "bleeding heart" rescues in the states will pay big bucks not to have them sent to slaughter. They will charge us 3 times the amount they will charge to the kill buyer. It was not too long ago that these sames babies were selling for $100 - $150 apiece. It is understandable if somebody falls in love with a horse and is willing to spend over a thousand dollars to get it home. But most of the rescues here do not have that kind of money and the adopters are not willing to pay $1200 for a horse they can't even ride for 2 years. Our rescue is located in rurual New Mexico, a very impoverished area. Last fall we were able to find adoptive homes for 30 "pony skin" babies. The adoptive prices ranges from $300-$700. And some of these babies had registration papers. We brought them into our ranch, quarentined them for 30 days, doctored their ring worm, ticks, and strangles, had one on IV therapy that didn't make it. We gave them shots and wormed them. We halter and lead broke them with the help of local FFA high school students. It was a real community project. We went to North Dakota twice and transported them here ourselves. I don't think we broke even. But they are all in loving adoptive homes and not on some dinner table overseas. This year we will be going to auctions in TX, that is what we can afford to do. We will not pay the high prices that ranchers are trying to gouge us with. There is such a glut of horses here in the states now. We will not have any problem bringing them in through the auction. The bottom line for us is to save them from the slaughter and find good homes for them.
Becky

I am not too familiar with FANI but we work with PMU foals too. Take a look at our website at http://www.freedomhillrescue.org to see the horses we have available and those we have placed! The PMU farmers have been putting high prices on their foals this year and so we can afford to get them in like we did last year....many of these farmers have not had contracts for a couple of years and still say the foals are PMUs and are taking advantage of our fellow Americans....buy the foals or they go to slaughter....well we have also turned to helping horses at killbuyer auctions. These are USA horses that will go to slaughter if they are not purchased as well and they are much more affordable for us to save.

I noticed last year the increases of the PMU prices. I agree with the assessment that the ranchers have labeled our farms and homes "Suckers" because we would rather take the risk on a horse slaughter bound does not mean we cannot save a life closer to our own circles. there are auctions local to me, I could save a slaughter bound animal for a lot less than what the PMU ranchers are doing now. because no matter how it is sliced, it is ALWAYS a risk buying an animal sight unseen... I applaud the rescue orgs thjat take on loads of horses to try to rehab, but for myself, I dont ever buy one I am not prepared to keep for the lifetime of that animal. IF through training I increase the value and usefulness of a specific horse then my job has been fulfilled, and then I would have an open space for a new rescue. but I would be reluctant to go with some of the new rescue groups, because I have the " whats the catch" feeling . Melissa176

I want to make a few comments on this topic. First of all many ranchers did just loose their contract this year, since all the ranches in Alberta were closed. There are some that lost their contracts prior to this year and did not sell all their mares and for a good reason, there were not enough homes for them. There are some that held back on some of the horses to possibly become breeder. The prospective of those in ranching is to breed the mare to cover the upkeep for a mare during the winter. The vast majority of foals born from this catergory are selling for $325.00 and up. I sure wish I could feed a horse for that price for a winter. I would rather see these ranchers not send their mares to slaughter and breed them to sell the foals, then send the mares to slaughter. They were not given years to place these horse, but a season. The market has been flooded for awhile now and if people don't want to rescue then don't. But for those of us that truly love horses, we will try and do what we can for any and all horses. Most of the Canada horses are from USA lines and are registered here. Most of the drug they produced was used my woman in our country. Somehow that adds up to me, that we owe these horses a chance. Rescue people do a wonderful job. But the most important people of all, are the ones who adopt and put the love, time and money into these foals and horse that they deserve. For anyone that needs some direction were to go on helping these horse, please email me privately. There are some politics in play here and the poor horses have no say. Their time is running out as Septmember approaches. Anyone that trys to prevent people from helping horses, should not be a part of a rescue effort. I have an issue with negative people as in the long run they tend to do more harm then good. I could not rest my head on my pillow at night, if I thought for a moment that I caused a horse to go to slaughter by saying negative stuff. Help who and what you feel comfortable with, but don't hurt others.

Robinluvafghans@aol.com

quote:

Anyone that trys to prevent people from helping horses, should not be a part of a rescue effort. I have an issue with negative people as in the long run they tend to do more harm then good.

Robin I dont think anyone here is trying to prevent people from helping horses....I do that daily as do many others that are here. I am simply stating I cannot afford to bring in these PMU babies and place them. Did you see the post above that says "good greif I cant believe the prices some of these rescues have on these horses" ? Well that is exactly what the problem is. In order for us to recoup money to help more horses we have to put high adoption fees on them and then we get the "these horses adoption fees are too high" problem. WE WANT to help and have helped in the past but it comes a time when its not affordable to do so....especially with the high gas prices now and shipping cost going way up. What good are we doing if we take in a shipment of horses that we cant place because we have to put high prices on them or sink????? What good is that doing anybody???? We cant save all the horses of the world and everytime we save one thousands still go to slaughter its just the way it is. So we are not saying negative stuff and causing horses to go to slaughter we are discussing this serious problem. Yes many of the foals are still going for $325 (although this year they are harder and harder to find) and even so shipping from Diamond W is $560 so thats $900 and then I put 30 days of TLC into them and ask $1000 and all of a sudden I am the bad guy because I am asking too much for the foal I purchased for $325.....where is the logic in this? I am sorry but the shipping is a problem and just because we choose to turn our efforts towards horses closer to home it does not mean we are being NEGATIVE. We are just trying to save more horses without losing the farm.....

I agreee with you Mel. We have taken in over 30 PMU's last year and placed them anywhere from $350 to $700 apiece. We did not break even. We picked most of them up ourselves in North Dakota and brought them here to sw New Mexico. This year we will be going to the TX auctions to get babies. It costs us about $1200 to make the trip and we can fit 14 in our trailer. That is a far cry from the $500 apiece to bring them in from Canada. We are trying to place as many horses as possible, keeping them from the killer buyers. But we need to protect ourselves too. AS for the comment on negative thoughts on this board....I think being able to speak our feelings honestly has something to do with the Third Amendment.
I don't think it wll hurt the PMU rescues, only make the adopters wiser.
Becky

Yes Becky freedom of speech is a wonderful right. But so is restraint and choosing our words careful at least in a public written form. I think with my brain before I write, at least vast majority of the time. I don't want to hurt any rescue group or any peope that are helping horses. Some stuff was put out awhile ago about a rescue group, that I had knowledge about and did not want it to get out. I believe I know were the info was obtained from, but all it did was hurt things not help. Not to mention it looked like I let it out, which is not my style. When I go for someone, they will deserve it and see it coming face to face. There are different sides to a a story and perceptions. I tried to walk away to keep out of the middle of a brewing pot. Because I like things to stay positive. Those looking to adopt want to feel comfortable about who they are adopting from. Someone they can go back to and talk to if they need to ask questions.
Mel, No one expects rescues to buy all these foals and horses. But there are individuals that will buy them. Also those that can transport themselfs can make it more cost effective. Not everyone has an auction near them or a rescue group they are comfortable with. Dealing directly with the ranchers before these foals and horse go to feed lots, has some advantages and is an option for some. For those that are close and can save the auction horses I say go for it. I wish I could, but I would be sick if I went in. All horses deserve a chance!

Robin

Well I guess I would like to make a few comments since number one I was one of the rescues hurt by the bad mouthing that turned to be nothing but malicious lies. To be honest everyone has their opinins on what horses t hey want to rescue or how a rescue runs but until you walk in the feet of some of the rescuers I don't think it is fair to say that anyone is trying to dissuade any other person from rescuing a horse. And yes, by saying negative things it hurts the entire cause and believe me it has a ripple effect because we are still feeling the pangs. But, that being said, I, like Mel cannot rescue babies from Canada that cost $500 and up becaus eof the fact that we try to do quantity and to me that matters. I don't care what they look like I want to save as many as possible. I think it is great that there are individuals that can do this and the more the word is spread the better. That is why I think it is so important to have an informational site to tell you how to care for your new arrival to that it will be a good experience for you, the foal and it's new herd. WE are adding that to our site this month along with many other changes. SO as much as I believe in the cause I can see that there are different situtations. Last year we rescued with the help of individuals to loads from Dave Wolf and I can tell you they were butI was lucky enough to get sub. shipping on one load and that is why I was able to do it. Mel is rioght we can't put $1000 - $1200 into a horse then have it land here and do 30 days of quarantine and then what if some of them get sick, it is longer. The adoption prices would have to be over $1100 and that would shy people away.We keep our adoption prices at $875 and people can come out and look for themselve and do the "touchy feely" with their horse. This way they have a horse that they have had a chance to get to know and has been cleared of quarantine. But then there are people who are equipped to quarantine and those are the people who can but a horse off the Internet. With so many horses, yearlings and foals in the United States going to slaughter, our organization is focusing on saving as many as possible. In fact we have 15 arriving in a couple weeks. you can view them ar http://www.saveafoal.com

Jen

sorry my typing is a bit off. anyway I meant to say that last year we rescued from Dave Wolf and they were beautiful

I have a wonderful,beautiful PMU filly from Prismpmu rescue that I got in 2003. I paid 450.00 for her and had her transported to Lubbock,Texas. Total 825.00. She is my shinning star and I would not take for her. I am now aware that PMU's have made their way here to SW Texas auction.I have a mentor who is helping me learn the way of the auction.My friend Debbie recently purchased a lovely,sound,big, 6mo old Perch/TB cross here at Lubbock auctions for $160.00. I want you all to know I APPLAUD all efforts to save horses from the slaughter houses.Drafts are one of my passions and I love their kind,gentle nature.But how do we as rescuers balance the rising gas prices to get them here,along with the GREED of some breeders. I am thinking if we make an all out effort and got highly organized we could make a " PMU auction connection,"we could save more foals.I don't know just a thought?Again I want you all to know how much I appreciate all efforts. God Bless Ramona

Ramona contact me privately. Some rescues are getting together to do just this sort of thing...you can contact me if you would like to be included in this effort! poniesonly@aol.com
http://www.freedomhillrescue.org

Hi,
This is an interesting discussion. I found myself thinking about all this recently when I interviewed four Alberta PMU farmers trying to place horses through a US organization. These farmers had all lost their contracts 18 months ago, in winter 2004, while they had pregnant mares in the barn. (See the resulting article in the September issue of "Western Times" magazine, which is free in tack/feed shops in CA.)
I was really put off by how many mares had been re-bred in 2004 (months after losing their PMU contract) and now the ranchers were looking to place foals. I was really disgusted! Why did they keep breeding these mares?

Some interesting answers (from both ranchers and the placement org): the ranchers (three of the four were breeders) are used to the income from their "foal crops" and after losing their PMU contracts, giving up the foal income was more than they could handle. Also, there was some suggestion that these PMU ranchers may have been gently encouraged to re-breed mares *in case* the market rebounded. For these ranchers, I think, after decades in the PMU business, it was just way too scary not to hedge their bets by having some mares to put back "on line" in the event Wyeth gave them a new contract.
Another rancher told me that he knew he was "done" in the PMU business, but that he re-bred his Draft mares, which are hard to place, to a Thoroughbred stallion in order to make the mares more attractive to buyers---they get a sporthorse type foal. This is turning out to be a good idea as nearly all of his older PMU mares have been adopted.
Another rancher took 35 young draft mares from the killer buyer. He got stuck with them when his contract died, but he did NOT re-breed them and is now training many of them to drive. He really wants to sell them outside the slaughter market and also re-coup some of his money.

The four ranchers I interviewed clearly cared about their horses and were trying hard to find US homes. It is a lot of time and effort for them to work with a rescue---it would be far easier and perhaps more profitable in the end to simply have "Scott" the local killer buyer give them a check. Several of them were clearly horrified at the thought of sending horses to auction and quite clearly did not do it that often. All of them had purchased slaughter-bound horses either for their PMU operation or to find them homes. I believe one of those ranchers I interviewed would pretty much die or euthanize his draft mares before he ships them to the killer. His neighbors make fun of him and all his pasture drafts sitting around.

Also, as these defunct PMU ranches sell/place more horses, they are more able to afford to winter over the unadopted ones (which many ranchers will try to do) or continue to try to sell them in the US.

As for the "rescues" charging high sums---I questioned this, too ($1400 for an old, worn-out Percheron???), and was told that NAERIC only subsidizes "open" mares' shipping. Hauling large Draft mares and tiny babies successfully requires good quality shippers and for the mares, larger accomodations, which do not come cheap. Also, the coggins blood draw and border crossing papers add up.
The non-profit I got my mares from broke down all the costs. I paid $900 per mare, and about $500 of that went to the rancher for the animal (about 50 cents per pound). $100 for coggins/import and $300 for shipping (1800 miles!).
All this overbreeding, both here and in Canada, is incredibly sad. I see it in the PMU farms, and I see it in my irresponsible neighbor who breeds anything with a uterus.
So, more food for thought. Main thing is that we all help horses, local or far away. If every horse owner simply took the time and money to just help ONE horse out of a bad spot, it would be a much better world!
Kudos to all of you and the hard work you do!
Respectfully,

Excellent post Katie I enjoyed reading it and it was very informative. WHo do you write for, feel free to post your articles on our website in the News Section. Or email to me and I will do it for you. Thank you for your input. http://www.saveafoal.com

Jennifer