I am going to recieve hate mail for this but I had to register on this site to voice my opinion.
my first question to supporters of this bill is have you learned nothing from the pet population crises in this country?
How many of the "horse lovers" here actually make your living in the horse industry? I do.
The rose colored glasses need to come off here. If these animals had another value they would not be in danger. That responsibility lies in the hands of owners, breeders and trainers like myself. Yes I have sent two horses to slaughter in my 20 years plus in this business. They needed to go there. I have sold way mold many more than that every year into useful professions.
If the rescue, horse haven, second chance ideas were working there would be no need of this legislation in the first place. Are we to start publically funding horse shelters in the same manner we do animal shelters? I for one do not want my tax dollars that I earn by producing a marketable, servicable equine to the buying public spent in this manner while the law that caused this in the first place reduces the value of my product. Maybe we have a different view of cruelty. A quick kill is more humane to me than years of neglect caused by no financially viable out let for these other unused horses.
Just trivia but how many of the supporters of this bill are proabortion?
Mary Thompson
Thompson Performance Horses

Last year just under 66,000 horses were slaughtered here in the US for human consumption overseas. Their meat is exported to France, Belgium, Italy, and Japan. Horsemeat is generally considered a delicacy in these countries and is higher priced than beef. France alone consumed 300,000 horses last year, Italy 350,000 horses. The French numbers may change however. France has banned the sale of horsemeat in restaurants due to health concerns. Many medications and topical treatments that are commonly use on horses are never to be used on animals intended for food. There is no withdrawal period.

The population of horses in the US is approximately 7 million horses. The 66,000 slaughtered horses represents less than 1%. In 1990 over 300,000 horses were slaughtered in the US. The number of horses slaughtered has steadily dropped in the last 14 years while the number of foals being born has increased. Drops in the number of horses slaughtered have been almost 80,000 a year at times. During those years we did not see a huge influx of "surplus" horses or a large drop in the price of horses. The number of horses slaughtered every year follows the demand for their meat, not the overall horse population. This illustrates the lack of a need for the slaughter industry to regulate horse population.

Roughly 690,000 horses died last year in the USA. That HUGE number of 600,000+ horses dying from ways other than slaughter did not create a bad enviornmental impact, like the AMVA and AQHA would like you to think.

California passed similar legislation in 1998. Since then, horse thefts have dropped almost 40% and continue to drop every year. Horse prices have remained steady and the horse industry thrives. Abuse cases in California have not risen at all, and have declined in areas, while the national average is on the rise. Also, during the years that the Illinois slaughter facility was closed, abuse numbers dropped. Ironically (or maybe not), Texas has the highest rate of horse abuse in the nation. This illustrates that ending slaughter will not encourage the neglect and abuse of horses.

The method of transporting horses to slaughter is inhumane. Horses often travel 36 hours or more without rest, food, or water in cramped double decker trailers. These trailers are built for shorter animals such as cattle and pigs. Horses often slip and fall in these trailers arriving at the plants dead or severely crippled. Transportation reform laws were enacted in 2002 but they have not done any good. Even proponents of slaughter like Dr. Friend at Texas A&M agree that the transportation of horses to slaughter is inhumane.

The slaughter itself is also inhumane. The chutes that hold the horses are made for cows. Horses are much more flexible with longer necks. They are also more intuitive than cows and have a skittish nature in stressful unfamiliar environments. They thrash about making the captive bolt operator's job very difficult. The operator often has to stun a horse 3-4 times before rendering the horse unconscious. Sometimes the horse is slaughtered while still alive. USDA considers a 95% rate of unconsciousness before being butchered very acceptable. That means that 2,500 horses (at best) were slaughtered last year while they were still fully alive. The captive bolt gun is used to stun the horses. It's like a spike on a leash. It is shot into the horse's head and then retracts back in to the gun. It can be a humane method of a killing a horse (much like a well placed bullet), but the assembly line fashion that these horses are run through makes it nearly impossible.

Horses that go to slaughter are not generally old, sick, crippled, or dangerous. By the slaughter house's own records (Dallas Crown and Beltex in Texas) only 10% of horses processed are old, sick, injured, or otherwise "unusable". Just like beef consumers, people who eat horse want young tender flesh. It's just plain ridiculous to think that all of the horses being slaughtered are 25 yr. old nags who can barely walk...

And did you know that 40-50,000 horses are stolen in the USA every year? You can verify these statistics with Stolen Horse International, http://netposse.com. Did you know that the only reason the slaughter plants scan for microchips is to remove them so they do not contaminate the meat? This was testimony from plant workers.

One interesting statistic, roughly 70% of all horses that are slaughtered in the USA are quarter horses.

There is no hard proof or evidence that stopping horse slaughter will cause a rise in abuse and neglect, thousands of unwanted horses lining the streets, or envoirnmental problems. BUT, there IS convincing evidence that stopping horse slaughter will NOT cause these problems.

To support horse slaughter is to support the abuse and butcher of a national treasure. Horses helped build this country, settle the west, and win wars. Today they give us entertainment, pleasure, and companionship. Horses are not eaten here in the USA. They deserve respect and thanks for all that they have given us.

Have you been in the livestock industry long enough to remember the late 60s and early 70s (wild horse Annie) who was the forerunner of the BLM protecting the mustangs? This was before the European slaughter trade made weigh horses a valuable commodity. The only value then was pet food. I have been. I am from a very rural part of the country. I have worked cattle on horseback since I could hold the reins. My friends and neighbors the same. I remember seeing horse bought to be shot and fed to the hogs. Cheaper source of protein than processed fee. Slaughter horses could be transported in any way they felt. No humane transport laws in effect. I have seen horses tied in road ditches and left with out water. Legs wound up in the ropes. Why because they weren't worth but 6 cents a pound. That didn't add very fast and every one could afford one. If you can't afford a horse that costs more than scale price then you don't have the means to properly care for one. That was 35 years ago. You have still not told me anything I didn't know. The abuse cases have nothing do with the slaughter market as long as there is one. Without one they will. You are trying legislate animal stewardship. The reason there are more quarter horses in the slaughter houses than any other breed is there are way more quarter horses than any other breed. Tell you something? The point I am trying to get across is there has always been some sort of slaughter trade. I have seen what is was like when it was virtually nothing for price. If you want to realistically look at what this law will produce take a good hard look at the cat and dog population of this country. Abuse there is illegal too. I personally don't want a horse to have the same value as an unwanted dog.
Don't tell me what is going on, tell how you will take care of those horses that would have no bidders when their owners take them to the sale. Tell me what you think those owners will do when the can't even give them away. There is no way that will make the industry better.
I pay my rent and put food on the table with horses. There is not much in this busines I haven't seen or heard about. Some of it sickens me, but I know the way to make it all work is for me to produce a good saleable product that has other value. To care for my horses the best way I can, try to teach other owners to do the same, save the ones we can but not to take away the floor in the industry. And after reading all the hype on horse rescue I can safely say that I have in my 20 some years in this business "rescued" way more than most people on this site. Funny thing, I called it horse trading and making a living. That is where my prospects come from the ones "horse lovers" take to the sale underfed, unbroke, and dirty. I buy them at just a hair over the scale and some have left here to be the high seller at some other sale. In that respect if you can tell me the horse market has been unaffected by the drop in the slaughter trade then you have not been where I have. The horse market has steadly fallen since 2000. That is a fact, and you can check that by logging on to the web site of any sale company.
One more point before I end, slaughter buyers don't prey on unsuspecting horse sellers like most would have us believe. Most owners know exactly where their horses are headed when they sell them for the low prices paid by these buyers. That is their choice and their right of ownership. I don't like the slaughter trade but then I don't particularly like the my hamburger gets to my table either.
Mary

Things change Mary. Since you have been around longer on this Earth than I have, you should know that very well. You described some of it yourself. And times are changing once again.

I used to be on your side once upon a time. Someone asked me why I felt slaughter was neceassary and I gave all of the same arguments most still do. Too many horses, abuse/neglect would rise, the horse industry depends on slaughter, etc... Then that person asked me where I got my information. I said, common sense of course! This person then pointed me to a few "fact" sheets on slaughter, so I set out to prove them wrong. I was determined to dig up all of the non-biased information I could to make a fool out of this "tree hugger". It was during this phase of research that my mind started swaying the other way...

All that I have posted in my last post is based on facts. I wrote it for my web site at http://www.hr857.com I did research, verification, and put my college educated brain to work to come up with the statements above. I used information found from various sources, not just animal welfare sources. Most of that information stemmed from the original sources I used to try and prove the "tree hugging animal rights nut" wrong, lol.

So Mary, say all you want about the good old days and how things may still be done where you're at. You won't change my mind and you won't change the mind of the hundreds of law makers in Congress that agree. Horse Slaughter is NOT a necessary part of the horse industry. We slaughter a small percentage of horses every year, slaughter does NOT regulate the horse population, it doesn't set horses prices (killers pay what they have to!), it's cruel and inhumane, and the only people who profit from it are the foriegners who own the three remaining plants in the USA.

To support horse slaughter is to support the abuse and butcher of a national treasure. Horses helped build this country, settle the west, and win wars. Today they give us entertainment, pleasure, and companionship. Horses are not eaten here in the USA. They deserve respect and thanks for all that they have given us.

The reason the horse market has fallen since 2000 have NOTHING to do with slaughter. Slaughter has been RISING since 2000! It went down a bit, but then has gone up. The general economy has gone down since 2000. Since horses are luxury items, they usually go down even worse than the general economy. You can buy a nice broke gelding at one of our local auctions for $500! It's even worse than last year, yet slaughter numbers are WAY up since 2003.

So Mary, why haven't things gotten better then? If the slaughter market sets the horse market, we should be seeing MUCH improvement! It's because the slaughter market does NOT control the horse market. Slaughter buyers pay what they have to, not what they want to.

I'm glad you have helped out so many horses in past year Mary. It sounds like you are a truly loving and caring horse person. It saddens me that you feel slaughter is necessary.

~Barbara

This is what is known as a difference of opinion. The slaughter market does control the bottom end of the horse market. That is a fact. The economy controls the rest. That is also a fact. The horse market also went through a crash in the 80s same reason bad economy and to many young horses. Which is the time period just before you point to the slaughter market at it's peak. It is a cylical thing just as in the cattle market. Which is how I feel about it. If you want raise and deal in weigh horses you may as well feed cattle. I am sure your opinion of a broke gelding and mine are very different since mine still don't sell for that at any auction. But before we agree to disagree let me leave you with some things we should be addressing in our industry that contribute more than their fair share to the slaughter market so maybe we can slow it down from the front end.
The continued breeding of genetically inferior horses. HYPP N/H and H/H horses. If our breed associations had spayed and gelded every one of them when we could first test for this problem we would have solved that ten years ago. HERDA same thing. Structurally unsound halter horses, how many 12 year ex-halter horses do you see in the preformance events. Racing of two year olds, that puts them in training as yearlings. I have ridden my share of them for ownners to send to the track. Hate it. It makes for cripples at 3. Three year old reining and cutting futurities, same thing. Lounge line classes, that is just too much torque on young bones. Breeding thoroughbreds so insane they have no chance for a career of any sort but the track. Weights, chains and the horrible shoeing practices in the gaited horses. The state of the western pleasure horse in the stock horse breeds. The specialty breeding that gets totally away from form to function in conformation of horses almost all breed associations are guilty of this to a certain extent. If these horses can't preform their designated tasks they are slaughter bound. Tax deduction loss you know. That's what fuels a lot of the industry. That's what we need to address. Where is the anti-slaughter movement when extremely expensive horses have accidents to collect the insurance premiums? Yes, times do change but basic human nature does not. It is a fact you can't legislate morality in any realm of society which is what you are trying to do. I was just trying to point out the fact this anti-slaughter movement did not invent the wheel. Just wanted to say I have a college educated brain too. I do what I do for living because as I said I love the life not because I am not smart enough to do anything else. That is something I do resent, the attitude that because we are rural we have no clue what is going on in the real world. We are not bright enough to know what we should think so our "educated" congressmen have to do it for us. We have never not had a horse slaughter market of some sort in this country. So I don't honestly think you or I have can have any idea about the effect it will have on the industry. Maybe you just have more faith in human nature than I do. But human nature is to care for things that have monetary value of some sort which is another point I was trying to make. I guess we will see. Meanwhile get on the band wagon about the other problems I have mentioned if you can possibly support more than one horse issue at a time. That would be good for the living horses and maybe make it easier to keep them alive.
Thanks for listening.
Mary

If the slaughter buyers set the low prices, then why do slaughter prices fluctuate with the rest of the horse industry? When the general horse undustry is up, so are the slaughter prices. When the general horse industry is down, so are the slaughter prices. This occurs independtly of the number of horses slaughtered every year. Prices for slaughter horses have held steady over the last 2 or 3 years, yet the number of horses slaughtered is going up! Last time the numbers were the same, slaughter prices were nearly double what they are now, but the horse economy as a whole was doing much better, so killer buyers had to pay more.

The slaughter buyers aren't at every auction. They're not in every town dealing with every horse trader. They aren't setting the bottom price at every auction, yet those bottom prices all seem to be the same, or darn close. They pay what the current market allows, plain and simple.

I was not trying to make you feel bad Mary, I was just qualifying my own statements. I live in Arkansas, how more rural can you get! lol Before moving to Little Rock, I lived in Paris, AR for a year, population 3,000... I wish I could make my living off horses, but I'm a realist and know there just isn't much money in it when you get right down to it (crunching all of the numbers involved).

~Barbara

I will try to explain this one more time. Every time you go to an auction or make a private transaction in the horse business where a horse is sold for less than 40 cents a pound (or whatever scale price is and it does vary with the market and the condition of the horse) that is an option. Don't understand the cattle market either do you? The reason more horses are slaughtered even at a lower price is the main indication of the original problem, those horses have to go somewhere. Owners getting out at any price just magnifies this point. This is partly due to the economy and partly due to breeders being tired of 125.00 baby colts and 250.00 yearlings. These two factors in combination send backyard horses whose owners can't (or don't want to) keep them, breeding stock, and a lot of lesser quality young unbroke horses to the sale. It is the industry's way of righting itself by taking these horses out of production. Is killing them right thing probably not, but they have to go somewhere. They won't just disappear. How many do you want to adopt? This is the problem I was originally driving at. What will be done with them when there is no floor on the market, when no one will even take them for free? Which is something that has never happened in this country or any country for that matter.
The horse market is at the bottom of what is known in the livestock industry as a cycle. It happens in cattle, hogs, chickens, and horses. It has happened before. It is the law of supply and demand. Just living in a rural regoin doesn't give you an understanding of the livestock industry. That is the main difference in our basic beliefs. I think of horses as livestcock, not pets. That is why I can make a living with them. Also the same dedication you have put in your career has gone into mine. It is not easy and it doesn't happen over night. That is why I am passionate about my stance as you are about yours. I don't beleive a companion animal has more status than livestock. No rancher or professional horsemen gives more respect to his dog than his livestock. That is a point I just can't get across but is the one I am trying to make. The people in this anti-slaughter movement although well intentioned are treading in water they have no understanding of. This is why the AQHA, the AMVA, and the NCBA have taken the stance they have. They understand the livestock industry. I have seen the websites you tell to look at. It does not change my original question which by the way everyone has neatly sidestepped because they just don't have an answer and neither do I.
Just for the sake of clarity, while there are just "killer" horse buyers. It is way more common for dealers to buy both and while they not at every sale, I can't think of too many that they wouldn't be. To be honest, it is something I don't keep that close of watch on because if I am doing my job right that is not where my horses are headed. It is up to every other owner to do the same for theirs not the government. That is about personal responsibiliy and management choices and until people understand that we will have the same problem we have now just a different ending. But don't tell me I don't understand the industry because that won't do it. I started this with one simple question and that has not been answered. You can't asnwer it because like me you just don't know. Nobody does and that was my point.
For the point of clarity on what I mean by rural. I am third generation farm raised, second generation horse trainer, I have done everything from galloping race horse and showing western pleasure to cowboying just south of the Badlands. I have been a production supervisor and left that work in the above. Not being combative I am just explaining the difference between living in a small town and being in the livestock industry.
Mary

But killing them only perpetuates the problem. It opens up another "spot" for another horse. Yes, the whole mess may eventually work itself out, but how soon? By taking away one avenue for horse theives, poor breeders, and irresponsible owners (or just those uninformed about auctions), we are forcing them to find an alternative solution. We are forcing them to be responsible, or at least think for once. Ending slaughter will help correct this problem sooner. Besides, we don't eat horses in the USA, we don't raise them for food, the transport and slaughter is inhumane, and we don't slaughter enough of them to make a major impact on the horse population or economy.

Horses are luxury animals in this day and age. They aren't commonly used on ranches anymore (yes, I know some that still do, but they represent a SMALL percentage of the 7 MILLION horses in the USA), they aren't used for transportation except for Amish and Quakers (both, right?), and we don't raise them for food. Horses are pets, sporting animals, recreational animals, service animals (police and therapy), and entertainment. It's time their service to us be rewarded. Why not put them at the same level as purebred dogs? Everything we do with horses can be said about dogs!

Times are changing Mary, and if people don't change along with them, they will be left on the side of the road while the rest of the nation passes them by... Change is inevitable. Without change, a society will fail. History shows us that!

~Barbara

Yes, the times are changing and here is a somll glimpse of the future. I told your forum mananger I had no desire to post again but I just couldn't resist this one and the timing is so good even I can't believe this one.
This is a real ad in a real newspaper delivered to my home today. I suggest someone here call the number since this what you are all about. It reads "Free, 3 yr. old Arabian stallion to horse trainer only 712-207-2087". The newspaper is The Harlan Pennysaver their number is 1-800-909-6397. So there you go. Have at it this what you wanted. If no one calls then all you stand for is just lip service to a problem you want someone else to solve. Save away and get used to it. It will be happening alot in the future and it is what you wanted. By the way I wouldn't take him even for free, I know what he is worth and the ad is pretty close. Just one more thing how many ranches have been on or even talked to? Once again that is just wrong. Where do you "research your information? Save the stud and remember this post every time you see an ad like in the future. I could start listing ranches but why?

Mary. Since you tell me I cannot crosspost about the Arabian stud then I will not. I am S0 PROUD to be a part of this wonderful,honest,kind,smart,ingenious,most caring, UTTERLY FANTASTIC GROUP of people ever to bless the face of this earth. I call them GOD"S OWN SPECIAL PEOPLE.. MARY...I could find a home for the Arab boy in a matter of minutes,. That is how wonderful we are at "net working".FYI: Our numbers are right: The slaughter industry is responsible for MAD-INSANE incompitency , abuse,grief,torture,dishonesty,stupidity,greed all tied up in two neat little words used by pro-slaughter community QUOTE= "necessary EVIL"! ! and EVIL it is !!!! ALL OF IT from the panic filled beginning to the cruel,abusive butchering end . RAMONA