Hi! I joined this group in hopes of obtaining advice for our mare. She's a 16.2 black bay mare - we adopted her and her 3 month-old filly from Anastasia @ Hope for Horses in the summertime. Ground work with the filly (Lilly) is going really well - she's a big sweetie. (The girl's pictures can be found @ HFH website -> http://www.hopeforhorses.com/Ranch16PlacedPMU.htm scroll down for Princess & Lilly)

However, the mare (Gypsy Princess) is not coming around. Background: She was brought down from Canada a year ago. Don't know how long she'd been in the production line, but she must have been handled/mis-handled by men (hence her dislike of me). She'll tolerate being groomed or fed carrots/apples in the field. But when we tried working with her in the round pen, both the trainer (a female) and I were shocked at the response.
The first go round in the pen with the trainer went fine - she worked about 45 minutes with her on just haltering and attaching a lead line. That was a Thursday - I tried to follow suit doing exactly what she did on a Sunday. The mare panicked (sp?) and tried finding an open joint on the round pen, pushing and reconfiguring the pen on the fly! Then, in desperation, she put her head and neck through the top-most rung! When she couldn't get it out she backed up, taking the panel (and me) with her! Once her butt hit the opposing panel, she stopped and miraculously (sp?) got out! We were both in panic-mode at that point. I got out and started pulling panels away from her and then released her. The trainer came back on Thursday and tried the same thing again - this time, the mare bent (literally) 2 panels at the feet to the point
that they were destroyed! The trainer stated then that the best bet was to leave her out of the round pen and not try working with her for the time being.

That was 3 weeks ago.

She'll let me scratch her, but wont stay put - that's about it. Same for my wife and our daughter. If she feels the least bit threatened, she spins to kick. She needs her feet worked on desperately! I did read one of the posts here about the guy up in N. Texas who worked/works on Clydesdales. However, I can't even get a halter on her, much less stand still for someone to work w/her.

I'm a firm believer in no horse being a lost cause. We've only had her since August, so it's still early in the game. I do believe I've learned one thing - when we first got her, she handled more easily. Let me qualify that - when we took her between paddocks, she'd *snuffle* (that's what I call the sound she made that was somewhat snort/somewhat sigh) - you could tell she was uneasy about the short walk, but she'd do it. Not too much dancing, not too much extra effort on my part. Then, when we weaned Lilly from her, she had to stay in the paddock by herself. That was the best 7 weeks as far as our ability to bond w/her. When she was alone, I'd feed her from a bucket held in my arms. I got to love on her head & neck, and started trying to handle her legs in hopes of a ferrier working w/her. But when we brought her pack to the large pasture w/Lilly and our Quarter Horse, I think all ground gained was lost - it was like she became more reclusive.

Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Steven

We have a mare, Stella, that has progressively gotten worse, too. Although, she hasn't gotten to the point you describe, she is becoming harder to work with and even more agressive, especially when we feed her or try to catch her in a small pen. She is perfectly fine in the open field.

We have had Stella a lot shorter time than you have had your mare. Is your mare an older one? Stella is 12 and I wonder if that could be part of the problem. Stella is also not a dominant horse at all and is very skiddish. I also do not believe that any real progress will be made with Stella unless we seek a professional trainer. Based on what I've seen, parelli or other natural horse training techniques seem to work better for these kinds of horses.

I wouldn't write your horse off yet. I would get a vet check and make sure there are no medical problems and then hire a professional trainer to work with her if you can afford it. You can also purchase training kits if you can't afford a trainer and feel comfortable enough to do it yourself.

I hope all goes well with you.

Princess is about 10 years old now. When the vet saw her, he said she was the picture of health!
Looks like it might require a Parelli-trained trainer...does any one know of one in Central Texas?
Thanks,
Steven

Instructors

Here is a list from the parelli site.

Christi Rains is an excellent trainer in Glen Rose. You can visit her website at www.christirains.com Kerri Joosten is in Austin and her website is www.trailsendec.com or 512-922-7221. I highly recommend the Parelli method!!!

You may want to read a book "Animals in Translation" by Temple Grandon. She provides interesting information about how animals percieve the world. It has helped me understand our two PMU horses and a feisty Norwegian Fjord we have.

Best wishes to you all.

Thanks so much - I posted an inquiry on Kerri Joosten's site. I'll keep my finger's crossed!

One other note - it is interesting to me that when my wife or I have treats, she'll stand still and let us love on her (a bit). But if we have no treats, she will walk on. However; when my 12 year old daughter comes up to her, she can do whatever with her! Hang on to her neck and just talk to her! More proof that there is great hope!

Steven,
I have a Clydesdale cross mare that I got from HFH in March. I am not a experienced horseman but have volunteered at a theraputic riding facility for 4 years. We have a older gelding quarter horse and a mare that my daughter uses in the riding program and shows locally. This is my first experience training a horse. I decided to try natural horsemanship techniques with Bella.
I have learned alot so far and Bella can now be led and brushed. She does nicely in the roundpen. We are currently working on getting her to let us work on her feet so she can be trimmed. She continues to get more comfortable with us every day.
I'll list some things I have learned in this process that may be helpful to other PMU owners.

1. Be safe. Think about the possible reactions before you procede and make sure you can get out of the way. I learned early that a horse can kick you with its front feet. Shortly after we got Bella I was in the stall with her trying to get a lead rope on her. I had her backed in the corner and she slapped at me with a front foot. Luckily she missed.
2.www.naturalhorsetraining.com/RoundPenning.html This roundpenning article was very helpful and worked with Bella almost just like the author describes. I was never able to approach and touch Bella but I think this training was essential building her trust in me and also convincing her that I am the boss.
3. Be patient and consistent. Do the same tasks the same way every time. Like us, horses have good and bad days. Some days we go backwards, some days we repeat what we did yesterday and some days she will do something new.
4. There is a difference between the horse not doing something because they are scared and not doing something because they don't want to. For several weeks I could not get a halter on Bella. I could work her in the round pen and brush her but if I approached her with the halter she would start acting up. She didn't want that halter on and she knew how to keep me from putting it on her. Finally, I was able to get a lead rope around her neck with a training stick. Once I get control of her head she is like a different horse and I put the halter on.

I am new to this forum and would like to thank all who have posted training tips and links. So far this experience has been rewarding and I hope to be riding Bella by this time next year.

Jim

Jim:
Thanks for your post. Since I made the original post, we struck paydirt! We heard about Eric Clarke's Eququest here in the Georgetown TX area. He's worked for both Parelli and Lyons, so I'm in good hands! He's actually working with Lily the filly first - absolutely amazing how in one weeks time, she's already a different horse! We're discussing exactly how we're going to approach Gypsy Princess. I expect we'll start working with her after Lily's training period (6 to 8 weeks) is completed. I can't wait to see how quickly she responds. I'm fully prepared for the long haul, but something tells me that she's going to come around quickly once she understands what's going on.
Thanks again for the encouragement!